New TF2 - Axle Shims missing and/or incorrect

[tkw75]

Hi all, new TF2 owner with a couple of questions. I have read through the FAQ and builder's guide (thank you for the great information!) but I haven't been able to find anyone with this particular question/issue.

1. My rear pinion is shimmed with one thick shim on the inside of the pumpkin and no shims on the outside. Is this correct? All of the information I have seen is regarding the front diff but no mention of rear diff. My google-foo has not turned up an answer. I added some Lucas Red lube to the gear set, installed the third member and thread locked all the screws and there is a slight amount of play in the pinion but nothing alarming. Just wondering if this is correct (I don't think so).

2. My front pinion is shimmed with 1 thin shim on the inside and 1 thin shim on the outside - no thick shim to be found. Again, all of the posts I have seen are regarding the front diff shims and say to swap them, but as they are the same on my axle, there isn't much point. I will say that when I fully assemble the axle, I can barely turn the pinion so I am sure there is something amiss. I have fully disassembled and reassembled the axle (a few times for good measure) but the same result. If I loosen the third member screws a half to full turn each, it is smooth, but tighten them down and it binds. Is there a side to side adjustment on the ring gear/spool that I should be using?

Thanks in advance!
Tim

[new2rocks]

Greetings and congrats on your TF2. I'll try to answer your questions as best I can:
1. The rear axles are usually fine as they come out of the box. Shim adjustments are rarely needed, and I've never needed to adjust on any of my TF2s (3 and counting).
2. For the front axle, my understanding is that RC4WD worked with the factory on some adjustments last year, which would explain why my most recent TF2 (LWB purchased late last year when it was released) didn't require any adjustments to the shimming. It sounds as though your pinion is pushed a bit too far into the housing. I talked this through with another one of the team drivers, and we don't think lateral shimming of the ring/locker would help. If you have any shims on hand that are thinner than stock, it would be worth trying one of those between the pinion gear and the bearing inside the housing to see if that solves your problem. You could also try removing the shim currently inside the housing and putting it outside the housing next to the other shim (though I suspect that would bring the pinion too far out). If none of that works, or if you're not confident that you're able to get it shimmed properly with the parts that came with your truck and/or that you have on hand, next step would be to email [email protected] for help.

I hope that helps. Keep us posted!

[tkw75]

new2rocks,

Thank you for the information, it is greatly appreciated.

1. Good to know about the rear axle shims. I think I will try to shim it to eliminate the play but leave the gear mesh as it is. Just a little piece of mind.

2. That is interesting about the re-work of the tooling from the factory. Running changes for improvement are always welcome. I picked up a shim set from my local hobby shop which are 5mm x 8mm (the 9mm OD vs 8mm should not make a difference) in 0.1mm, 0.2mm and 0.3mm thicknesses. This should give me the ability to move the pinion in a bit to gain some clearance for a proper gear mesh. I will get it installed in the next couple of days and will report back with the results.

On a very non-related item, any opinions on a brushed vs brushless system for the TF2? I am looking at HolmesHobbies crawlmaster pro 13T brushed or their puller pro 2200kv brushless motors, with the appropriate ESC of course. I love brushless systems but that is in racing. Not sure if the controllability and drag brake are similar or different enough to mess with brushes again. The main reason I am looking at brushless is my main type of use for this truck will be to trail with my sons and their ECX Barrage, so nothing that demanding. Any opinion/information is welcomed.

Thanks again and I will report back when I have the front axle re-shimmed.

Tim

[Levi]

This is good info, thanks for sharing. I'll have to inspect my axles before I put them on in the next while. Good to know I shouldn't have to touch the axles. But I'll give then look over.

[new2rocks]

Glad to hear you were able to get some shims. One little tip is to screw in only 3 or 4 of the input housing screws when you're adjusting on the bench until you know you have it set. Much easier to fine tune if you don't have 7000 screws to fiddle with, lol.

As far as motors, it's such a personal choice, and those are both excellent options. I have a Puller Team 13T (essentially a fancier Crawlmaster) in one TF2 that I usually run on 2S, and a 2200 Stubby in another TF2 that I run on 3S. I have multiple of those motors on various other rigs, as well. Both are great motors, and the Stubby with a BLE is very nearly as smooth on the low end as a Crawlmaster. If you're planning to run the 2-speed, the low speed resolution in low gear is that much smoother due to gearing, so going brushless is a really easy choice. Bottom line...if you're leaning toward brushless, go for it. Stubby 2200 on 3S, geared down, with expo throttle through the ESC or your remote is a fantastic setup and very unlikely to leave you wishing for brushed.

Good luck and keep us posted.

[tkw75]

New2rocks,

Thanks again for the information. I am pretty set on brushless motors/esc’s so I think I will get the puller pro stubby 2200kv, BLE and the SHV500 servo to eliminate the need for a BEC. This seems like a solid, clean setup.

I have been straight out at work (apparently, engineering is now a 24hour job) and as such I haven’t had much time to ‘play’. I am going to try toget to it in the next day or two but it is not looking promising. As soon as I have the shims all sorted I will let you know.

Again, thank you for all that you and community does for our hobby, truly appreciated.

Tim

[new2rocks]

I'm glad that was helpful. One suggestion I would make is not to go with an SHV 500 on a TF2. That's an awful lot of power to run in a truck like this. Definitely don't need that much power in the servo, and it can actually create some problems. I usually like to go with the RC4WD twister waterproof or the Savox 1210. Those put out about 270 oz-in of torque, which is plenty for this type of truck.

I hear you on the 24 hour a day job, LOL. In my former life as a corporate lawyer, I was on call 24/7. Owning a painting business is much more conducive to family life and having a hobby, lol.


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[tkw75]

Update:

I was able to tear myself away for a bit this evening and was able to correct the tight front axle as well as eliminate any play in the rear axle.

I purchased a 3 Racing shim kit, which consists of 5mm x 8mm shims in 0.1mm, 0.15mm, 0.2mm, 0.25mm and 0.3mm. There are enough of each shim that I should be set for life. I may have to will them to my sons...

The rear axle had a single 0.90mm shim on the outside of the pinion, to which I added a 0.2mm shim to the inside between the pinion and inner bearing. This tightened up the rear pinion so there is no play while still spinning freely and when assembled to the axle, it spins easily with little to no slop in between the pinion and axle shafts. Not tight in anyway, just a good, solid mesh.

The font axle had a 0.60mm shim on both the inside and outside on the pinion. I removed the inner 0.60mm shim and replaced it with a 0.30mm shim between the pinion and inner bearing. To keep the pinion play to a minimum, I added a second 0.30mm shim between the outer bearing and outer 0.60mm shim. The original inner 0.60mm shim was kept for later use. This combination is very smooth with minimal to no play. Again, a good, solid mesh.

Very happy with this simple change and have no doubt there will be no issue with the axles. Well, at least until I muck it up somehow...

On the topic of servo's, that is a good point about having too much torque for the application. It is like everything else with the platform, balance is the key. Besides, the Savox servo's are cheaper and available at my local hobby shop, which I would rather support to ensure I can keep getting parts locally and quickly.

Would a BEC still be recommended with the BLE and the Savox? I am assuming yes but a quick conformation would be appreciated.

Again, thank you for taking your time to help out a neophyte to the crawling world. I will be ordering the BLE and 2200kv puller pro shorty this weekend.

Now, the body is awaiting some assembly, paint, decals, etc. I know everyone has the powder blue with white stripes, but I have always loved that color on Toyota's.

Tim

[new2rocks]

New TF2 - Axle Shims missing and/or incorrect

Not sure why last night's post was awaiting approval. I've removed the duplicate post to clean things up. Re using a BEC, I always do it except with 8th scale ESCs, so my default answer is yes. The new Mamba X has an 8A internal BEC, so I am looking forward to trying that out without an external BEC. But with a BLE, the safe answer is to use the external BEC.

[tkw75]

Thanks again, I will be sure to pick up a BEC from the LHS... they have tons of Castle items in stock.

Thanks again!

[tkw75]

OK, so I went in a slightly different direction, but I blame my local hobby shop. They had a Mamba X in stock as well as several waterproof Savox servos, so a couple of dollars later I have a Mamba X, Savox 1210 for steering and a 231MG for shifting duties. I think I am going to try out the new CC 4 pole crawler motors in a 2280kv. They appear to be quite good and the price is very reasonable.

Once I had the proper shims in the axles, I added some (quite a bit) Lucas Red grease to the axles, transmission and transfer case. The driveline is pretty smooth but I can see that the plastic driveshaft are not the, um, most sturdy items in the power transmission path. Looking at steel shafts just in case...

So, I encountered another issue with my truck when I assembled the chassis and suspension. The rear suspension shackles will invert and lock into the compressed position very, very easily and remained locked until I apply a little force to the tire to reset the leafs. I have seen this on 1:1 rigs when the shackles are too short for the suspension travel. Just wondering if anyone else has seen this (a quick forum search says yes, but limited numbers) and if so, what is the cure? Simply breaking in the suspension? Here is a pic of the shackles locked in position.

TF2 rear suspension.jpg

Any information is greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Tim

[new2rocks]

BowHouse RC just released a rear leaf shackle mount that corrects this issue:
DSC08922.jpg

Here's the link:

https://www.shapeways.com/product/TRJK8PC57/rear-leaf-shackle-mount-for-tf2

[tkw75]

Thanks, I will look into these and perhaps some other options.


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[tkw75]

New TF2 - Axle Shims missing and/or incorrect

Just a quick update... I have received all the electronics and am working out the wiring. So far I am pretty happy with the general layout but I am going to play with the ESC and receiver mounting locations. Suggestions are welcomed [emoji3].




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[tkw75]

OK, so I haven't been updating, well, any post in a long time. The TF2 is done, well, almost. I would like to replace the stock plastic bumper with the new Marlin unit, but they are not available yet except on the Marlin edition TF2. I really do not want to spend 500 dollars on a front bumper... just sayin .

Installed the light kit as well... need to replace the rear red LED's with some white ones. I also installed some Bowhouse RC parts (rear shackle mounts and skid) to improve it's capabilities. I have also painted the rear window surround on the bed black to make give it that little bit of extra pop.

Anyway, here she is as she sits as of a few weeks ago... I am really happy with how she turned out.

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